captainvirgilHilts: I assume you mean my statement about SS12/195 behaving like a FMJ. Yes it
acts entirely like an FMJ as is does not fragment or expand, the nib HP is
a matter of semantics to fit in where HP is required. The most it does is
sometimes spit the core. As for being 'far thinner'... Grip width is the
same, the PMR beats the FN by 0.1" at the controls versus FN's max width at
the nubs on the rear of the slide (using FN and KT specs). A tenth of an
inch is no where near 'far thinner'
captainvirgilHilts: Ah the desperate ramblings of someone trying to save face. You state that I
am getting all defensive yet you are the one cranking out multiple repeat
posts, resorting to claims of lies, emotional critique, etc, LOL But to
address -YES it's a particular round you want DUH -If you can't afford one
to bad for you -ammo is typically less than mid/top shelf 9mm -Cite how
5.7x28mm is "dangerously high pressured" :-)
captainvirgilHilts: By all means... after you. Your the one citing all these facts and having
all sorts of issues, how about you address just half of your
false/incorrect statements. I keep having to correct all your bad info to
which you you become a shrinking-violet then ignore it or change your
heading. I'm still waiting for you to cite your 'detuned' performance
figures, your bullet weights & materials that do not exist, or CCI's
guarantee among a bunch of other of your claims. Oh wait, nitpicking :-P
Eric Lopez: @MafiaGENGTEAM1970 You must be a COD Fanboy with that kind of a response.
captainvirgilHilts: "And honestly... do you think nitpicking at things like whether it's
aluminum or tin cored, or 28 grain vs. 29.5" -It's not nitpicking it just
shows your lack of facts and consistency "makes you seem intelligent when
you keep dodging" -I have addressed all your points and then some "you're
trying to compare the V-max's power mainly to the WMR" -All three were
shown, your the one who keeps ignoring the 195
DishonorableSlap: @elitesack more like 15.00 dollars for 50
sparklerbombg: can a 22 also fire a .17?
twistedcross: Did you even watch the video? .22 mag ineffective vs clothed targets? How
many people do you know that wear clothing 3 phone books thick?
tlwolff: About the least informative video I've seen on here. Loose the music and
explain what is happening.
smartguy104: @captainvirgilHilts The 5.7 gets over 2000 fps in pistols so no matter
weather its a 22wmr rifle or pistol it still is considerably stronger.
Brass fetcher web shows three different 5.7FN loads as yielding superior
ballistics gel performance to a 230 grain 45acp federal loaded Hydra shocks.
jrmyscttwds: i couldnt find the mute button fast enough
captainvirgilHilts: Well then feel free to do so.
gacountryboy389: @markdam Yeah but do you really wanna spend 1,000 on a FiveseveN when you
can spend less and get a sig sauer 1911 or something like that?
IcabodCrane: Will this not let me link? Because if not I don't see how you expect me to
cite the proof of just how sad the damage is from the M80 .308 nato is
compared to even a .357 unless you're thick enough to be packing a chest
depth of over 10".
captainvirgilHilts: Out of like barrels -28/40gr 5.7 delivers 275/256 ft-lbs -30/40gr WMR
delivers 149/138 ft-lbs -Simple ballistics shows that respective HP
projectiles will favor 5.7 in fragmentation. -Simple ballistics shows that
respective FMJ projectiles will favor 5.7 in penetration. -This is not
opinion but fact -I have no issues with WMR as it will do the job well, 5.7
just does it better
captainvirgilHilts: There are no flaws as is and I was already being GENEROUS by comparing the
two using rifle versus pistol. Most people that compare the two do so using
WMR rifle ballistics versus 5.7 pistol ballistics. I didn't have any at the
time but all that using a hi-vel 30gr WMR would show is similar
damage/fragmentation but with FAR less penetration. All one has to do is
look at the numerous gel tests posted on line to confirm.
IcabodCrane: I find it rather sad how defensive you've gotten when I've just tried to
make a simple, non-aggressive discussion/argument over the two handguns. I
mean with some of the points you've laid out, I could also add in that the
5.7mm is known as a cop killer, and was used against your own men in the
recent Houston killings, Captain.
captainvirgilHilts: Nor can you get a PMR30... so what?
IcabodCrane: Oh and Captain... how is a pistol round that hits 50,000 PSI pressures not
considerably more dangerous than the measly 18,000 a 45 fires? I mean I'd
be afraid that plastic gun of yours would explode in my hand. CZ52's are
notorious for exploding from using slightly higher pressure rounds than
stock, and I've seen plenty of glocks explode from hot .40 ammo, which is
running maybe 40k?
captainvirgilHilts: Thats the point, morons love to say that 5.7x28 is nothing but expensive
22WMR yet 5.7 out of the pistol outperforms 22WMR fired from a rifle.
Pretty simple concept.
captainvirgilHilts: 7.62 NATO is "horrendously inferior" to a 44 magnum HP. -picks jaw off
floor -starts uncontrollably laughing -snorts morning coffee out of nose
onto keyboard -almost wets pants -regains composure long enough to
type........ You sir are a hoot!
f3nixfire: Lets just say I wouldnt want to get shot with a five seven.......it can
drop someone in a hurry. Outstanding home defense weapon.
Gene Plum: 3 rounds and some wet phone book is hardly a test......FAIL .
captainvirgilHilts: BTW it was rather obvious that your mention 'after the fact' was simply you
back pedaling after posting all your incorrect figures. I'm also curious as
to why you fail to address the fact that I keep busting you on all your
incorrectly stated figures. You ramble on post after post whining that you
don't approve of my basic comparison all the while you can't even get your
info correct. You bitch about showing and not citing... okay, back up your
claims. After all your the one making them :-)
dayh8: I'd love to hear what you have to say and not listen to the awful music.
Thanks for the pictures though.
captainvirgilHilts: Incorrect FN has produced 3 types of 28gr load, 192, 195, 198. The first
two produced 2100fps out of the pistol, neither are still in production but
can still be found retail. SS198 is being currently produced and delivers
about 2250fps out of the pistol, it is restricted sale per FN. Projectile
construction is identical for all three.
captainvirgilHilts: Who said I was a Captain? Oh wait your just making ASSumptions based on my
id as well as just generally talking out your ass and making stuff up
AGAIN. You see Mr Genius, Captain Virgil Hilts is simply a well known
character played by Steve McQueen in The Great Escape. A pure genius you
are sir LOL
parabellumantonio: The point is: you have a most powerful gun with a smaller size. The 5.7x28
is better ammunition that .22 Magnum.
Reapers261: It looks like the SS195 would make a better Personal Defense Round, but all
i can find in stores is the SS197SR. Where can i find SS195? Would it be
better for defense??
cakley01: Amazing results from the Pistol against the .22mag rifle. And that is with
standard 5.7 ammo. EA ammo would have been even more impressive.
IcabodCrane: It isn't a particular round, it's V-max verses V-max. Again something you
should be able to comprehend. Is it so hard to show? Or are you lying about
your overpriced toy with it's overpriced, dangerously high pressured rounds?
captainvirgilHilts: (Such spastic postings that you can't even quote so that folks can follow
what you are trying to go on about) I thought you were buds with FN reps?
If so you should be able to talk to them over some hot coco where they
would inform you that SS192/198 were never designed to expand/fragment. Per
their own design history the design is to alter CG to create 90 deg yaw as
well as alter aerodynamics. Not a failure but per design. SS197 otoh was
designed to fragment.
captainvirgilHilts: "I tried to link you a few of the cites..." -Unable and unwilling to stand
behind your many false statements as usual. (btw ding-dong you don't have
to link a URL you could just cite the website or source) "it's been proven
you're a censoring coward" -But yet your still here rambling, interesting.
"you're a fat piece of nothing" -Yet it obviously bugs you so much that you
can't seem to come up with anything factual to debate with. Nice... LOL :-)
IcabodCrane: I'd just like to see a video which shows the difference between the two
V-maxes. One thing I do think is relevant though is a 6" penetration can be
good in a situation where you might have a lot of bystanders, f'rinstance
in an urban area. People are legally liable for overpenetration shots
wounding innocent bystanders, which is the main reason I love the .22
magnum, because even with the lack of frag out of smaller barrel, chances
are it won't make it through the back of their ribs.
chattmanjiii: best test of fn 5.7mm vs. 22 mag. I have ever seen ,it shows all
characteristics of both rounds. ! Thanks!
IcabodCrane: I am personally ashamed that the US would allow such a sleazy piece of work
as yourself make it all the way to Captain, I wouldn't doubt two months
from now you create another Houston disaster when enough people point out
how ridiculous your ballistics "proof" is, and just continue to troll you
for being such a loser. I don't know why I'm even still posting aside from
sheer boredom, perhaps to see if you finally blow the last screw in your
janius777: @captainvirgilHilts 5.7 is like a .22 "super" magnum concerning shell
capacity but you didn´t mention what ammunition you were using - hollows?
shooting telephone books isn´t comparable to real life issues I guess -
according to manufactorer civilian 5.7 bullet is designed with aluminium
tip or hollow point to frag easily especially on hard targets like steel -
don´t think there would be much difference on these type of targets
captainvirgilHilts: -How on earth do you come up with 'far sleeker' as dimensionally they are
nearly identical? -PMR operation is not an either/or, it's a hybrid system
like the FN's recoil/delayed-blowback hybrid. -Never said any organs were.
-Never said they did. -No guarantees here, just fact as follows -28/40gr
5.7 delivers 275/256 ft-lbs -30/40gr wmr delivers 149/138 ft-lbs (both out
of like barrels) -FN does not make any loads with a 'tin-core' all are lead
or aluminum (some with steel pen or poly tip)
Jesus Saves: I agree with you on the 5.7 round but the only pistol available to my
knowledge is the fn which seems like an air soft gun that is way over
priced. Hopefully some day the gun makers will expand and manufacture guns
in this round. As a side note some gun stores will only sell the 5.7 gun as
well as the ammo to people with proof that they work in law enforcement.
Aaron Thiel: I notice you only test one type of WMR ammo (Federal WMR isn't that great I
was suprised it did so well) I would test a couple others that are designed
to expand. Hornady, 30 Grain, V-MAX CCI Maxi-Mag Both of these will preform
much better than the Fedral.
Bryan Reavis: Good vid, bad music, great idea. Thanks for sharing.
captainvirgilHilts: Oh and BTW, no one has or has had to 'prove' anything because I have
clearly stated more than once that posts with excessively vulgar language
and/or that stray from topic will be deleted. And those who continue to do
so will get the boot. If you don't like like it either: a) post like at
least a halfway mature adult b) post someplace else
jsd5179: 4 mins of pointing and flipping pages .... wow best review ever
captainvirgilHilts: And once again in your frustration you have not actually quoted anything so
we have no idea what you are addressing. See if you look over here
-------------------------------> you will see a reply button, when you see
something you would like to comment on click it. That way we all will know
what the heck you are yapping about. As for knowing anything... cite where
I stated "FMJ equates to V-max". I will be waiting ;-)
IcabodCrane: I mean have you ever looked up the ballistic differences between a hollow
point and an FMJ? Even out of a 7.62 NATO round, the damage done is
horrendously inferior compared to even a .44 magnum hollow point, whereas a
.308 hunting round with a soft point will leave a massive hydraulic wound
EliteAmericans: @captainvirgilHilts depends what kind of pistols. Those little dinky NAA
revolvers have tiny barrels and they hit about as hard as a 22lr from a
rifle would hit. A good revolver like a rough rider or a single six with a
long 6+ inch barrel can easily generate over 250 foot pounds with the right
captainvirgilHilts: "I think he's afraid of proving his pistol's not much more than an
overpriced .22 mag" -Oh by all means please prove it to us. Show us how two
similar weight projectiles can perform ~equal when one delivers nearly 2x
the energy at about 30% more velocity. "he even tried to make the rebuttal
that the hp rounds made for FN don't tend to mushroom properly" -Ah lying
again I see. SS192/195 were not designed to expand/fragment as stated by
FN. "Honesty & accuracy Pfft" -IcabodCrane
axishans: @cakley01 and how!!!
Idontplaymmos: @ronin223 five seven is combat proven.