phrankus2009: 1) Raise the height of the Tri-ox bar on the bottom of a car-tin or some other insert, that will put it within an inch (or two) or "closer" to the vessel.
2) Shugmery made a pot-lid, and used the cup rather than the flask ... under 8 minutes using a mini-bongo spirit burner.
3) Wondering is fresh production ESBIT cubes would fare any better. (if the height was properly adjusted / elevated).
4) Turn off the lights !
5) Thanks !!
scarekrow9: I'd like to know the source for these little stove, if they can sell them for 10 bucks imagine how cheap they would be at cost.
Cliff Wilson: looks like that would be enough to pasturize your water, but cooking is out
SororThothma: Paint the exterior of the bottle and the cup with 1200f black hi-temp paint to help with heat absorption. The interior and exterior of the stove can also be painted with hi-temp paint - it will not deleteriously effect the stove, and may even help its performance.
SOFJoseph: Two Errors:
1. Trioxane does not burn properly sitting upon a metal surface. You must first put a layer of dirt in the bottom of the stove before lighting. Burn time will increase 50%. Triox was designed for US GI stove, intended to be burned upon the ground.
2. Despite what many say, triox DOES have a shelf life. Old triox will burn too quickly.
I've brewed MANY cups of hot tea in the Volcano w/triox over 20 years using only 1/3 -2/3 of a trioxane tablet. I've NEVER seen triox soot before.
calld2serve: Can you do a test like this with the Volcano and one of the webber fire cubes
PHARRAOH: how tall each,are the cooker and the bottle? also, can you tell me the out side diameter of the cooker please?
DrunknShooter: I think Hiram uses the old triox because thats the only stuff his local Military Surplus sells.
TheBeebopper: At 4:15 on your timer there is an expansion of gases in the lower part of the stove as evidenced by spilling of the flame out of the 'doorway'. Looking at the fuel tab there is a white stream jetting from it. It is my contention this is (likely) the magnesium being released from the stearate of a fuel tab polymerised with such. The burn was clean before but quickly overheats causing smoking in the restricted burn area. It may perform perfectly with the base on cold ground.
MrBillTroop73: My apoligies, I no longer have one to test.
Justin DiPlacido: How come you always use trioxane that is so old, is it no longer made?
TheBeebopper: So the pattern for those candle holders is an efficient burner pot. It keeps the heat of combustion away from the pot wall and so directs more heat upwards. I'm thinking it should burn alcohol or gelled alcohol well, as it stands. Have you one to test?
MrBillTroop73: The incoming draught certainly helps to cool the glass, and I remember always being able to lift the glass with bare hands, though some warming occurs from radiant rays.
TheBeebopper: In the variation of practical sizes, used in still air there is little difference.
I had forgotton about those candle holders, Is the glass kept cool by the incoming draught?
I think the venting as you describe is reliant on the pan having flared sides when it is circular. Squeezing a can in the middle with burning fuel in the bottom obviously gets sufficient draughting into the can to maintain the burn at a regular rate. This is close to one of my suggestions for submersing the triox.
MrBillTroop73: I believe that venting into a circular vessel is dependant upon the diameter of the vessel.
Certainly a candle that is deep inside of an un-vented hurricane candle holder burns very well, but is absolutely dependant on external oxygen.
If there is a wide enough diameter, convection of the hot gases rising straight up creates the airflow needed to bring fresh oxygen in from the sides.
TheBeebopper: There is little venting into a circular pan unless the burning face is within 1/4" of the height of the pan. I'm certain you would have seen some smoke if US military triox bars required supplemental oxygen. I think these bars are marked in thirds and suspect that is needed to sterilise one cup of water if not actually to boil it, raising 200ml water by 80degC or 8floz by 144degF in a metal mug probably sat on top of a rectangular pan such as the end of a 12oz corned beef can.
MrBillTroop73: It would be difficult to say that Triox does not need external oxygen, and that it just supplys its own.
I believe triox needs sufficient external oxygen for effecient burning.
TheBeebopper: The triox did not smoke from a circular pan when Hiram tested it floating on the water, it is using its own oxygen. He could have had a kettle over it and heated that and still warmed thew water underneath. Or perhaps it is the keeping the fuel 'cool' made it burn better. One, other or both. Easy to stick it in a deep cup and see in the Swiss Ranger stove.
MrBillTroop73: I would have gone the other way, feeling that it needs even more oxygen to prevent the sooty, smokey fumes displayed here.
However, you pose an interesting concept.....
TheBeebopper: Well that's old fuel Hiram is using, a little unstable. I most certainly would try to burn it in a cup which reaches almost to the bottle without any venting. Containing the gases in a burning cup to permit temporary storage may be the only way to use these tab's in their condition. Although they may be burnt in the open and burn well when in good condition, containing them and using the released oxygen should improve efficiency because there is no requirement to heat incoming air.
MrBillTroop73: Its been a long time, so perhaps I dont remember well enough. Perhaps I just used triox with the cup.
But still, I dont recall any soot problems with triox in any of my experiment with any stove
TheBeebopper: I think the simplest efficient set up for triox is to use a skirted kettle set down on a wood plate. Open the triox package on the wood plate leaving it on its wrapper, light it and set the kettle on top. A small metal plate such as a 3" disc should suffice as a reflector. The greater area of the combustion chamber taken by the kettle base should control the heat in the combustion area better. The kettle skirt would need (maybe not, and it might be more entertaining without) holes in it.
TheBeebopper: with the swiss ranger volcano and bottle?
MrBillTroop73: very interesting, I have never had a soot problem with Triox.
Hoz Holla: I found a pic of a Borde brochure on the net that shows three different sizes of burners and their applications, one for the Swiss Volcano stove.
A fellow said he tried a Borde using the cup and burnt a hole in the side of the aluminum windscreen! But when he used the bottle to hold water the heat diffused and there was no damage,and he was using white gas, not alky.
TheBeebopper: How about using an open alcohol pan that just fits through the 'doorway', or a pad burner a little slimmer?
Hiram Cook: I wish. Everytime I see them on eBay they go for a pretty hefty price. You know, that might explain the shape of the door.
TheBeebopper: Looks like the bar burnt well but the contained heat dispersed the oxygen content at a higher rate than the fuel could be used. It also looks like the positive pressure around the pot base has dispersed much heat into the stove wall. When the flue draws the exhaust gas the flame is kept off the combustion chamber wall, the pressure generated by the oxygen content meant this was imposible. This demo reinforces my thought that the best way to use triox is to burn it in a can in the water.
Hoz Holla: Interesting series with the Swiss Ranger stove. I have it on good account the original stove for this kit is a Borde. Sometime known as the "Borde Bomb. They are still being made in Switzerland although on a very limited basis. You wouldn't by chance, have one would you Hiram?
Hoz Holla: manufactured 9/82. I wonder if Triox has a "use by" date or if it deteriorates with age?
pyroman675: me nether
FriarTuck1961: Great test.
Sure didn't expect the huge amount of soot.
DrunknShooter: That is interesting about the soot.