Bill James: Can you try that again using a little chunk of C-4 for fuel?
SororThothma: Paint the exterior of the bottle and the cup with 1200f black hi-temp paint
to help with heat absorption. The interior and exterior of the stove can
also be painted with hi-temp paint - it will not deleteriously effect the
stove, and may even help its performance.
Cliff Wilson: looks like that would be enough to pasturize your water, but cooking is out
Hoz Holla: I found a pic of a Borde brochure on the net that shows three different
sizes of burners and their applications, one for the Swiss Volcano stove. A
fellow said he tried a Borde using the cup and burnt a hole in the side of
the aluminum windscreen! But when he used the bottle to hold water the heat
diffused and there was no damage,and he was using white gas, not alky.
PHARRAOH: how tall each,are the cooker and the bottle? also, can you tell me the out
side diameter of the cooker please?
MrBillTroop73: very interesting, I have never had a soot problem with Triox.
TheBeebopper: @hiramcook How about using an open alcohol pan that just fits through the
'doorway', or a pad burner a little slimmer?
pyroman675: me nether
Hoz Holla: Interesting series with the Swiss Ranger stove. I have it on good account
the original stove for this kit is a Borde. Sometime known as the "Borde
Bomb. They are still being made in Switzerland although on a very limited
basis. You wouldn't by chance, have one would you Hiram?
MrBillTroop73: The incoming draught certainly helps to cool the glass, and I remember
always being able to lift the glass with bare hands, though some warming
occurs from radiant rays.
TheBeebopper: There is little venting into a circular pan unless the burning face is
within 1/4" of the height of the pan. I'm certain you would have seen some
smoke if US military triox bars required supplemental oxygen. I think these
bars are marked in thirds and suspect that is needed to sterilise one cup
of water if not actually to boil it, raising 200ml water by 80degC or 8floz
by 144degF in a metal mug probably sat on top of a rectangular pan such as
the end of a 12oz corned beef can.
MrBillTroop73: I would have gone the other way, feeling that it needs even more oxygen to
prevent the sooty, smokey fumes displayed here. However, you pose an
MrBillTroop73: My apoligies, I no longer have one to test.
Justin DiPlacido: How come you always use trioxane that is so old, is it no longer made?
scarekrow9: I'd like to know the source for these little stove, if they can sell them
for 10 bucks imagine how cheap they would be at cost.
SOFJoseph: Two Errors: 1. Trioxane does not burn properly sitting upon a metal
surface. You must first put a layer of dirt in the bottom of the stove
before lighting. Burn time will increase 50%. Triox was designed for US GI
stove, intended to be burned upon the ground. 2. Despite what many say,
triox DOES have a shelf life. Old triox will burn too quickly. I've brewed
MANY cups of hot tea in the Volcano w/triox over 20 years using only 1/3
-2/3 of a trioxane tablet. I've NEVER seen triox soot before.
Dan Murphy: rocket stove
TheBeebopper: The triox did not smoke from a circular pan when Hiram tested it floating
on the water, it is using its own oxygen. He could have had a kettle over
it and heated that and still warmed thew water underneath. Or perhaps it is
the keeping the fuel 'cool' made it burn better. One, other or both. Easy
to stick it in a deep cup and see in the Swiss Ranger stove.
TheBeebopper: with the swiss ranger volcano and bottle?
TheBeebopper: In the variation of practical sizes, used in still air there is little
difference. I had forgotton about those candle holders, Is the glass kept
cool by the incoming draught? I think the venting as you describe is
reliant on the pan having flared sides when it is circular. Squeezing a can
in the middle with burning fuel in the bottom obviously gets sufficient
draughting into the can to maintain the burn at a regular rate. This is
close to one of my suggestions for submersing the triox.
TheBeebopper: Looks like the bar burnt well but the contained heat dispersed the oxygen
content at a higher rate than the fuel could be used. It also looks like
the positive pressure around the pot base has dispersed much heat into the
stove wall. When the flue draws the exhaust gas the flame is kept off the
combustion chamber wall, the pressure generated by the oxygen content meant
this was imposible. This demo reinforces my thought that the best way to
use triox is to burn it in a can in the water.
phrankus2009: 1) Raise the height of the Tri-ox bar on the bottom of a car-tin or some
other insert, that will put it within an inch (or two) or "closer" to the
vessel. 2) Shugmery made a pot-lid, and used the cup rather than the flask
... under 8 minutes using a mini-bongo spirit burner. 3) Wondering is fresh
production ESBIT cubes would fare any better. (if the height was properly
adjusted / elevated). 4) Turn off the lights ! 5) Thanks !!
MrBillTroop73: I believe that venting into a circular vessel is dependant upon the
diameter of the vessel. Certainly a candle that is deep inside of an
un-vented hurricane candle holder burns very well, but is absolutely
dependant on external oxygen. If there is a wide enough diameter,
convection of the hot gases rising straight up creates the airflow needed
to bring fresh oxygen in from the sides.
TheBeebopper: So the pattern for those candle holders is an efficient burner pot. It
keeps the heat of combustion away from the pot wall and so directs more
heat upwards. I'm thinking it should burn alcohol or gelled alcohol well,
as it stands. Have you one to test?
robomanism: there are about 5 on there for $20
Hoz Holla: manufactured 9/82. I wonder if Triox has a "use by" date or if it
deteriorates with age?
TheBeebopper: I think the simplest efficient set up for triox is to use a skirted kettle
set down on a wood plate. Open the triox package on the wood plate leaving
it on its wrapper, light it and set the kettle on top. A small metal plate
such as a 3" disc should suffice as a reflector. The greater area of the
combustion chamber taken by the kettle base should control the heat in the
combustion area better. The kettle skirt would need (maybe not, and it
might be more entertaining without) holes in it.
calld2serve: Can you do a test like this with the Volcano and one of the webber fire
MrBillTroop73: Its been a long time, so perhaps I dont remember well enough. Perhaps I
just used triox with the cup. But still, I dont recall any soot problems
with triox in any of my experiment with any stove
Hiram Cook: I wish. Everytime I see them on eBay they go for a pretty hefty price. You
know, that might explain the shape of the door.
MrBillTroop73: It would be difficult to say that Triox does not need external oxygen, and
that it just supplys its own. I believe triox needs sufficient external
oxygen for effecient burning.
FriarTuck1961: Great test. Sure didn't expect the huge amount of soot.
TheBeebopper: At 4:15 on your timer there is an expansion of gases in the lower part of
the stove as evidenced by spilling of the flame out of the 'doorway'.
Looking at the fuel tab there is a white stream jetting from it. It is my
contention this is (likely) the magnesium being released from the stearate
of a fuel tab polymerised with such. The burn was clean before but quickly
overheats causing smoking in the restricted burn area. It may perform
perfectly with the base on cold ground.
TheBeebopper: Well that's old fuel Hiram is using, a little unstable. I most certainly
would try to burn it in a cup which reaches almost to the bottle without
any venting. Containing the gases in a burning cup to permit temporary
storage may be the only way to use these tab's in their condition. Although
they may be burnt in the open and burn well when in good condition,
containing them and using the released oxygen should improve efficiency
because there is no requirement to heat incoming air.